Workshop - Newport Beach 1980- Page 8 of 8

Continuing.....

(To me is that - - Well, I still get somethere that I shouldn’t  get caught in traditional approaches….)

No, I don’t say that either.  I didn’t say not gettin’ into  traditional approaches - - a lot of the people I know are very traditional; and they do all the traditional things.  So I have no objections.  Now it seems if I say there’s no objections, that must be a covert way of saying there is an objection.

(No.)

‘Cause I have no objections what people do.  I have no thing for you to join or no way to be orthodox.

(Well, what about people who have something for you to join.)

Have something for me to join?

(Yes.)

I’m not a joiner.  Now I have no objections for somebody who has it.  I just don’t have anything for anybody to join or anything to be orthodox about; and if it’s askin’ me to have something for me to join, I probably won’t because I’m very poor joiner.

(I guess what I’m asking is can one who is orthodox - - ah, remember….)

Have self remembering?  I’m sure they probably could if they used it properly.  I’d agree to that.  I think you could take ancient Judaism and practice it with understanding and you would have self-knowing.  In fact one of the things I studied very long and diligently was a group of things called Hasidim which is an ancient Jewish tradition, not too ancient - - back middle ages out of Eastern Europe.  I found much of great value in it.

(You see I’m identified from what I’ve heard you say; and I just would like clarity - - that self knowing now is something associated with conditioning which is not where we want to be; and heretofore I had this told that to know oneself is a useful fine thing.)

Which it is.  I’m always trying to lay it out that way.  It’s very worthwhile; and then to remember oneself is even prettier adjectives ok?   Even more beautiful adjectives - - even up to the incredible and so on, ok?  Clear enough now or do we need more?  That clear enough.

(That’s just fine.)

Ok, good.  Next question, comment.  Yes Debbie?

(Did the teaching originate from Tao?)

I don’t know dear - - Tao is the word.

(Is it Tao, T – A – O?)

It’s pronounced D – O – W.

(Oh.)

So it’s one of the early ones that had that same material in it, yes, spread out in many ways - - it’s been in many other places.  I’ve seen the teaching material in about everything that’s survived through the ages, yes.  And it was probably in Tao too - - yeah, very definitely so.   But that doesn’t mean it originated there.  Somebody started Tao, so it was before. 

Now where it originated doesn’t matter.  I hope it ends in me, see - - where it works in me; and I don’t care where it came from - - really totally disinterested.  Yes Charles?

(This week has been a lot of emphasis on taking charge.)

That was the theme of the discussions.

(Single mindedness and self worth.)

Right.

(Is there a place in the work that you do for teaching what the Eastern Religions would call total submission of the student to the teacher ___ because on account the teacher knows what you need.)

Not with me.  I don’t know - - I will be glad to work with you on what you feel you might need; and if I see something, I might vaguely bring the point up; but no, I don’t want anybody being submissive to me - - that’s another system and I’m not involved in it.  I find no fault in it, but in fact that I don’t do it doesn’t mean I’m opposed to it.  Nobody has to be submissive to me.  I’m sayin’ I want a challenge.  I don’t want somebody to say, “Well, you’re the great end all, be all and I’m gonna sit here and do everything you say and believe everything you do.  That is to me the fourth decision that says, believe and do as you’re told by your authorities;  and I don’t want to be anybody’s authority.  Unfortunately I sometimes am used as that, I’m sure; but I don’t want to be anybody’s authority.  I like to be your ally and your friend but not your authority.  Next question, comment?

(I would say a comment Bob in regard to what Charles is saying is with an honest or genuine teacher, that that’s the attitude the student must take in regard to surrendering ….)

I’m sure that is - - surrendering something; but I don’t want to get the “container” and the “contents” screwed up together, ok?  I don’t want to get those two screwed up.  I want them to stay separate and I’m the container.  And ….

(There’s a large danger in ….)

I would see it as such or at least something very undesirable to me as an individual, ok?  I don’t even know whether it’s dangerous or not, but it certainly is very undesirable to me as an individual that I would have somebody totally gonna “believe and do as I’m told” by me.  I do know what you're talking about; and it is symbolic in a certain way that the person does surrender all they're preconceived opinions and so forth.  That is essential.  We all do it; but we can in our own way, in our own time and in the way we see fit to do it - - not in coming and saying, "Well, Bob you tell me what to do."  No way.  I read the book called "The Little Prince" and it says every time you do that you're responsible for them, so....

(So they say that ___.)

Well, I know.  It is responsible and I don't want that and I don’t want to get hung up with that.  It's still turnin' away.  Ok, next point?  Ok, sessions over, we will start in the morning at 10:00 am.  And we will be here until 12 and we will end promptly at 12:00.

Ok, we'll start off with anything you want to talk about this mornin'. 

(Can I get in a little one?)

Ok, good, I like little ones.  Good.

(We discussed at some point - - at some workshop the fact that man is not using all his potential, and it has been …..)

Some people say maybe 10% - - yeah.

(We’re not using the whole brain - - that kind of thing.)

I've heard that.

(What we noticed when our children had the learning disability the brain function was that in not being able to see the way the average person sees - - they developed other faculties like Gail - - she could hear better than her dog - - she heard all the sounds and everything was exaggerated.   So it seems to indicate that even physically, we have a far greater potential ...)

….to make it useable.  In other words if you should become blind, then you would begin to use your sense of touch and everything and you would exaggerate it over what everybody else uses because basically why bother to use it unless it's needed.  So the person's sense of touch, smell, everything becomes more perceptive.

I used to know a blind man; and he could go through a stack of phonograph records and rub his fingers across the grooves and tell you the name of every record.  I don't know how.  He just goes past the grooves and tells you what the name of the record was.  Unbelievable.  But he never missed a record.  I'd go visit him and he'd say.  I want you to hear this and he would get his stack of records up and run his fingers across it and say, "Here it is."  Put it on and play it and it would be right.  So you can develop fantastic things.

Now we have found a little phenomena with this ear device that when you put it on a person, they use it for a while and then they begin to be able to communicate - - now it exaggerates sound waves to make them into full sonic waves.  At first they have very difficult time with it and we turn the volume up real high so it's really pumpin'; and then they say it's too loud; and we turn it down and then we can turn the whole thing off and they can continue for a little bit because they are now learning to receive with their skin - - possible that it could be brought to the point where they could get along all the time.  We don't know that.  We haven't had that much time with it; but we have seen that it would continue to work, even though you turn the exaggerated stuff off. 

 

But we have seen very quickly that they say, it's too loud - - we got to turn it down, turn it down, turn the volume down ‘til you can barely feel it and they still saying that it's loud for them.  So you could, no doubt, be able to hear with your skin if you picked it up and started on it. 

I knew a lady that could tell the color of everything - - a blind lady - - by smelling of it.  She'd pick up a piece of cloth and smell and say what a beautiful blue.  And so on down the line, you know, she could smell of it and tell the color.  Now I can't do that; but no doubt I have the potential ability to do it. 

So obviously if we extend ourselves a little bit, we get more actualization of our potentials.   So it's like all the things we've talked about all week about taking charge and so forth.  At first it's sounds to the mind as being very difficult; but if you continue it for a very short length of time, it becomes as spontaneous as breathing - - you just do it.  But at first everything seems difficult.  I suppose there's a little thing in us that says, "If I've never done it before, it's bound to be difficult."  But it really isn't.   That get all your stuff straightened around all right.

(I just wondered, it's probably not too much advantage, but there is the potential that if we wanted, we could get a reason.)

If we had a reason, we could probably actualize all sorts of physical abilities that we don't ordinarily use, yes.  In other words our senses could take on chores of other senses to some degree someway or other, or certain organs can certainly adapt to use and fill in for another one like the lady could smell of the cloth and tell you it was blue, the man could rub his fingers across a bunch of grooves on a record and tell you the name of the record.  That looked pretty fantastic, but he seemed to accept that as “any joker ought to be able to do that”, you know, anybody ought to be able to do that.  Ok?

(Bob the other day you talked about energy and I'd like to ask you a question there.  If we get, - - if people leave really bad vibrations in the room....)

....kinda depressing things around yeah....

(Is there any way we can we get rid of these.)

Yeah, replace it with some of your own.  So go build you a good one of your own.  You're in an excellent business to do that.

(A few years ago there was a couple that visited us and stayed with us - - the visit went on and on___)

Indefinitely.

(Well when they were staying with us in the house, it was fine, but then they rented apartment from us and when they left - - they were there maybe 6 months - - when they left, I couldn't stand the damn thing.  So I decided to have a party and …)

Build it up.

(It was a terrible thing. Everybody was bitchin’ and cussin’)

It was a rough party.

(It was.)

Ok, well, you just have to go to work and get 'em out by keepin' some "ups" in it.

(I kept playing Dr. Gibson’s tapes in it.)

That really did for sure and certain.  Well, did it finally get rentable.

(Well, eventually.)

It takes a while. 

(But I was wondering if there was any way you could get…)

That's about the only thing is to put some different vibes in to kind of cover those up.  It's like painting the wall that's got dingy lookin', ok?

(I’d like to piggy back on that question if I could - - the energy level.  If a person's in a state of held resentment , are they producing waves of a definite nature on an oscilloscope where you can look at 'em.)

I would say if we had some, it could pick it up, yes, it’d be very definite.  It's a different wave.

(..than one who's in a state of fear.)

That'd be different, and also one that was angry or one that was bored or one that was vitally interested, yes.  They are different wave lengths.  Those are generally called auroras.  I don't use those words because they've been kicked around too badly; but it's a feeling aurora around people and you can, if you are workin' with it a lot, be able to recognize which one the person's playing with at the moment.

(So if one is in close proximity with someone who's angry all the time.)

Yeah.

(If you could identify it, see it, know it in some way - - you could diagnose it like you could diagnose ....)

.....measles...  Yeah, and it wouldn't do much good, but at least you could make some means of not picking it up.  In other words, all those things are highly contagious.  Moods are highly contagious like Betty's talking about.  It got so that when she even had a party in the apartment why the mood that was left on the walls and everything had  permeated everything so that the party turned out to be a disaster, is that right?  Everybody was fightin' with everybody else over everything.  Um hum?

(Ok, now I think we've heard that, you know, you just apply your own higher level...)

That's about the only thing you can do to it.

(Are there different higher ones for different lower ones?)

No, just any higher level above will help undo it - - two or three notches above will certainly help it a whole lot more than one above.  So if you went higher the better to get rid of it, the quicker it'd work.  But don't expect it to all get out in one day, Betty, because it won't do it - - because if they've been in there six months, it takes a while; but it will eventually dissipate over a period of time.  People do leave their marks on things.

(If a person’s been in held resentment for a long time rather than just the downer kind of thing, then we keep on doing that unless they’ve seen something differently.)

That's pretty apt to be, yes.

(Always.)

Keep watchin’ - - right, tune up when you see them coming  why tune up, ok?  So you get a little above that stuff all the time; and you can counter act it, but it does leave you a little bit on the tired side sometimes when you done that quite a bit.  It does use up a bit of energy to counteract it a bit, ok? 

(Resentment energy.)

Right it takes up a little bit.

(It was so hard to clean up that apartment, and I don’t think it was that dirty, but I just couldn’t stay there.)

Couldn't stay in there long enough to clean it, right.  It just flat run you out of there, right?  I have been in business buildings and so forth that does the same sort of thing - - it doesn't have to be an apartment.

(I have a different item.)

Ok.

 (You talk about seeing clearly, and I don't believe I understand all that yet because if I start thinking about seeing clearly, I soon get into the how.  Somebody was talking to me about the first value was going to be being financially independent.  How do you see clearly to be financially independent?)

Well, I think.....

(Excuse me, but sooner or later I was beginning to get into the how to - - now that's what I'd like you to comment on.)

Well let’s stay out of the how and see what the person would see.  It would mean different things to different people.  Perhaps a person could see themselves as not having any of these things and of being free.  So the greatest thing I think would be that the person could see themselves as being totally free in whatever direction you can go. 

Now I think a different person would have a different picture in their head; but whatever meant really freedom to them, Charles.  So if I were going to try to do it, I would just see myself as very free; or I would see the person I was working for as being very free to do whatever they wanted to without limitations that might affect more than their financial situation. 

But if I were doing it for someone else, I would see them as being totally free - - free to do what they wanted to do, to go where they wanted to do, be where they wanted to be, etc. I would see it as freedom; and I think, no doubt, everybody would have something slightly different in their head that means freedom; but whatever really means freedom to the individual that's doing the work - - whether it's for self or another.  I would see it as being free.

(Would you see them as being financially independent?)

I doubt if I could do that.  I wouldn't even bother to even look at the finances.  I'd see them as free to go - - free to buy a plane ticket - - free to go wherever they wanted to go - - free to go into whatever house they wanted to - - free to go in a store and buy what they wanted to.  I'd see them as totally free individuals.  I wouldn't bother with the nickels and dimes and quarters .....

(They may not have any more money.)

Right, may not have a dime more, but if they're totally free, they'd be all right.  I've seen people that had a considerable amount of money that were absolutely frantic about even spending enough to eat on.  You probably have too. 

I had a dear old uncle that died; and he never lived comfortable in his life; and when they started gathering up after him, they found his coat sewn full of money; and he had money all over the place; but the old guy had, simply, hardly eaten.  So he was very much in bondage and was walking around with considerable wealth - - a great amount of cash with him; and this was many years ago before inflation hit - -  he could have bought anything, lived in the nicest hotel in town and eat the best meals every day in the week and wore good clothes; but he was not free.  He was very much - - in fact - - wee, some of the people that knew him - - we were somewhat relatives, we used to go take him out once in a while trying to think we were taking care of the poor old man; and he could have bought us a thousand times over all the way around. 

But even if you took him down to buy something to eat, he would go over the menu and hunt up the lowest cost item and read over this way and then tell you he wasn’t hungry - - you really shouldn't buy him that, just get him a sandwich or something - - you know - - he was even fretful about spending my money; and you couldn't get him to do that.  He had a real quirk about spending it.  He lived in a shack; and he had something like $80,000 - - and this was dollars that now are 10 to 1, so it would be equivalent today like $800,000 sewn into his old coat; and he lived on garbage, you know, he would actually go out and pick things out people's garbage pails and so forth.  He was a very poor man; and he had gobs of money.  So I would see it as free. 

Now he didn't need any more money, but he could have used a little freedom; and he had two daughters; and they fought over the money.  So, you know, I like the one I read - - a cartoon long ago that all the people were sitting for a will reading, you know, and the lawyer was reading it off - - reading the old guy's will.  And it said, "Being of sound mind, I spent every blankity, blank dime of it."  So I consider this old loco didn’t have a very sound mind, you know, he kept it;  and the cartoon one said he spent every dime of it - - that's the way to get around it.  Don't leave it around for people to fight over. 

So that's the way I'd work at it is “seeing them as free”.  And I do that on several different things that people ask about - - not only financial but any other thing also.  What every person lacks is freedom; and they are really free, but they haven't discovered it yet.  We're all “free to”, but we haven't discovered it.  So I'm always tryin' to get across that freedom is available and that you are already free; and once you're free, then you can do about anything, right?  Ok? 

(What about - - I met somebody who is free to go and do; and buy and is now deeply in debt.)

They're free to be in debt, but not for long because they'll cut the credit off before long, right?  And, of course, anybody that does that is not buying, they are taking advantage of a good situation and that's not very bright - - they're perfectly free to do it.  They did it, but now they don't have the money to pay it with and so they have all kinds of difficulties.  So that freedom was very short lived.  Right?

(Right.)

And they really probably weren't really free to, they were compelled to in all probability.  I've seen most people that they were compelled to buying on credit cards and open accounts and etc. beyond their ability to pay for it.  So I think all these things are very nice - - credit cards and so forth; but before I'd put anything on a credit card, I want to be sure I got the money in my pocket to pay for it. 

(I can see that.)

Phillip? 

(Are you willing to talk about the practical definition of the “all is good” - - not from the relative sense of good but from the standpoint of Life's Word.)

I don't guess I'm prepared to talk on that; but what does the word "good" mean to you and I'll try to go on that.  See, that's the whole bit that I wouldn't know how to talk about it.

(I’m talking on the relative ….)

So, I like to stop with the "IS". 

(“All is.”, huh?)

Now then I can deal with that one; but when it comes up with “good”, you see everybody we talk with has some sort of a different definition of "good"; and I'd rather not use that word; and I can do it one other way if you'd like Phillip. 

[Writing on board]  Now we got it out of the discussion, you see.  It's "good" to me.  In other words, I see that everything works together for some things.  So you say a person has a pain.  To most people they'd say it's very bad.  To me, I see that it is the way a normal adaptation for the person to get all right.  Ok? Now I don't say that it is good in meaning that it is desirable, in the sensory state - - but it is desirable in the survival state. 

So I will answer your question either of these two ways; but I can't go into discussing it - - if it's “good”, then one person says it's “good to them”; and another one says ‘it's simply terrible” and so forth.  And I think in this little book that you mentioned, that it would fit either one of these; and I like to add this one on to it in that little book and then I feel that they got the rest of the sentence in there.  Every now and then I find something that I don't think the sentence is completed, ok.  (Laughter)

(Well, you did discuss it very well.)

Ok, thank you.  You're welcome.  Ok?  Next subject here?  Yes Margaret.

(I've been getting the definite impression in this workshop that teaching material is handled on a fresh basis in every workshop, every time; and therefore we really don't need to come to workshops.  If you want to come because it's fun to be here, that’s ok.   Am I pretty right on?)

You're absolutely right on.

(All right.  Now on the other hand, in the notes on personal integration and health, there is a statement that says, and I quote Mr. Rhondel ....)

(Whoever he might be....)

(...that each person should have a teacher to help him or her.  It cannot be done by the so called self-help method.)

So how long did it say? 

(How long did it say?)

Yeah, in other words, I think everybody would have to be introduced to the ideas with some living being somewhere's along the way; but after you're introduced, then you can do it yourself.

(Well, but in the same paragraph it says a person cannot see his or herself because a part of the self must be used to look at the other parts of the self.)

That is again with the startin' bit.

(I see.)

In other words the person couldn't see the picture of man very well because they're looking at it from the complainer or they're lookin' at it from another one; and you do need somebody around to start with; and once they get that far with it, though, then it's entirely up to them.  They can go on their way. 

Bill brought up here the other day that there's a lot of people he knew that had been to a workshop, and we never see them anymore.  And I do hear from them every once in a while.   They heard something and go on and use it; but they did have assistance in getting acquainted.  I think if you wrote a hundred books and laid out about the picture of man, nobody would really see it.  Now that's on self knowing. 

(I see.)

Ok?  I don't think they'd ever see it.  But if you point it out to them once or twice; and you be a living person there playing back and reflecting for them for a minute, they can see it because they are having to use one of those or at least one of them is taking up the chore of checking on the others.  So it does need another person there; but it is not a thing that goes on and on and on.  In fact, I have maintained over and over that six months is an utter limit to spending on self knowing.  The rest of the time spend it on self-remembering.  Self remembering you can do by yourself. 

(I see.)

And self knowing you can after you get started on it.  But it does require somebody to be a mirror or reflect, at least, that part that's doing the looking at the rest of 'em. 

(So once you get rid of the misconception....)

Right.  Then you don't need anybody else around.

(All you need to do is.......)

Then, of course, if we want to visit with each other and be entertained or whatever, it is wonderful; but it's not necessary.  But I do believe; and I will still go along with what that guy said - - that it is necessary to have somebody to start with, ok? 

(All right.)

That answer your question all right?  Ok.  Next question.

(On this self remembering thing that you can do by yourself.)

Yeah.

(Yesterday you drew a little picture on the board which had a bunch of V's with an awareness function and one X on top.  And the impression I got from that was that these awareness functions were using this intelligent energy in whatever form they chose.)

And each one of them could use it somewhat different, right?

(It seems a little perverse to me because the awareness function is a function - - I'll use the word created by although that didn’t quite ....)

Well, I mean just simply say, “made by”, that's easy enough - - whatever.

(Made by X.  It seems to me that there's such a thing as perverted because instead of the function using something from X, I would think that X would be using the function?)

It would seem that way except that X treats it like a child and therefore so loves it, it'll do anything the awareness function  says.

(I heard those words.)

Ok, keep looking at it - - don't take my word for it, check it out.

(You told us the story about the prodigal son one time, and when you said - - most people think it's the story about the son, it's really the story about the father.)

Right.  What the old man is.

(So do we focus on the wrong point of the story.)

No, I don't think so.  No, I think “awareness” is the one that has certain responsibility.  It takes care of communicating that.  X tells you what to eat.  X tells you when to rest.  X tells you when to take a nap.  X tells the awareness a bunch of these things for survival; but it  - - out of love - - is willing to and turns over the “what” to the awareness function - - you can say whatever game you want to play and so forth, but it is going to insist on keeping the body going as long as possible.  But even if the awareness function insists on destroying the body, it'll let it do it - - not only will let it, it will assist. 

(I turned the game over to the awareness function?)

…to the function, right.  It really turned it over and made it as though it were an individual; and it is treated as a son or a daughter that is extremely loved; and I think the focus is in the right place on that one there. 

Now we could reverse it and I see a lot of people that attempt to do that.  They say, “X you tell me what to do and I will do it”; but the awareness function doesn't know “how” to do anything - - it doesn't even know how to stand up.  So it doesn't get very far on it.  So you can't turn it over.  We've also described it as a partnership sometimes; and that one takes care of the “what” - - that's the awareness function takes care of “what”; and the X takes care of the “how”; and they can't reverse that because we don't know how to take care of the “how”.  So they work together on that score.

(What do you mean about X and survival?)

In certain areas of survival of the body, X gives the information.  We get it from without and from within.  We drew the picture that shows that.  Awareness gets information from the physical body and from the environment.  A lot of that we'll form a feeling about the situation.  The awareness function integrates it into a certain feeling then this is the “WHAT” which is communicated to X.  X then responds with the appropriate action according to the information it receives. Ok?  Next question, comment.

(Along that line, if someone is kind of playing things and there are alternatives, as they come up,  each one is highly interesting in the individual and you might say - - ok, this I will do.  But you can't do anything except right at the moment, right?)

That's right.

(When you talk about being free to go buy a plane ticket, go to this house or the store and shop and perhaps going down here to Jamaica, now one could say, “I want to go and get a plane ticket and go down and check the thing out,  but think of all the money - - all the money I got to stash into it  plus  five years time or whatever else I come up with - - that's a pretty big investment;  and you say, “Ok, I'll go do that - - and then you think, “Well now wait a minute, this may be A-ing and B-ing the decision.”)

A-ing and B-ing, that's all you have - - it’s the static.

(You can either say that or you can listen and say these are alternatives and then look; but it seems to kill the energy.)

Well, it does when you get down to two possibilities about it, you quit making up your mind, you were trying to rationalize what would be the best; and you don't know the best.

(This I see.  This is awful - - just go on - - very often individuals go on the spur of the moment thing and get themselves in ____.)

Called a whim.  Yeah. 

(Yeah.)

And you can go analyze it to death; so the point is that neither way will I know the future. 

(True.)

Of course, we can go back and ask George. 

(But he doesn’t  know either, right?)

Right, so then we're still back on A-ing and B-ing, and now I’ve complicated it by adding George’s opinion which is another whole kettle of fish because now I think I got to please George by taking his advice; but I can think of it as I’m going to run an experiment.  Now I don’t' know what's the best thing to do or the wrong thing to do; all I know is I can run experiments with things, is that right? 

(Yeah.)

Ok, so this is basically the way of all things - - if there's such a thing as evolution, it certainly was that Life was running experiments and said, we'll try out these enormous big widgets that look like lizards.  And that didn't work so good, so back to the drawing board.  We'll make another one - - wipe those out, you know - - just cancel - -flush it; and we'll start over on another one.  So if we get tangled up with time elements and so forth, we're afraid to run experiments; but basically everything we do is an experiment whether we recognize it or not.

(Well, this is true.  You can say that it's got to turn out this way, and then you're trying to...)

But you don't know that.  You don't know the future, so then let's say that we go out and run an experiment.  Now if I'm running and experiment, I have a limited length of time that I intend to run any experiment, ok? 

(True.)

Ok.  I will experiment a year or two; and if it doesn't look like it's working all right, I just as soon shut the door and say well; I'll mark that one off to tuition.  I've done lots of 'em.  I've got a lot of tuition in my day, so I've spent a lot of tuition; but that's the only thing I know to do with it is that I made a run. 

Now Miss Pat, you work in the investment field and so forth.  Can you ever know how one's gonna work out? 

(No.)

So everything you do is an experiment based upon what information and data you have that this would be a reasonable experiment, right? 

(Right.)

And there's some of them don't look reasonable; but nevertheless you will never know the outcome, number 1 - - is that correct?  You never do, so you're always a gambler.

Why bother to sit down to figure out how it’s gonna work out because you get headaches then.  You get headaches and knots in your solar plexus and a whole bunch of other good ailments come along right quick.

But if I’m gonna say this looks reasonable to me, I like the idea and I’m willing to run this experiment for a while - - so then I take off on the experiment.  That’s about the whole thing.

(Now that’s one way to look at it and another person may say, I’m committed to make it go.  Talk about commitment for a minute.)

Well, I’m not committed to any business to see that it’s gonna go.  Yes, I know people who commit themselves - - we know some folks up in Salt Lake have been committed to running a pump business for 18 years.  He fell in love with an idea; and the pump never did work real well except for a few minutes and it came unglued and you had to tear it apart and put it back together; but he kept on workin’ at it, and he was totally committed to it. 

He called me yesterday and said he was filing all the papers for bankruptcy on it.  So finally the experiment’s going to be over; but that’s what I’d call a commitment. 

I look at a thing a bit before I start, that a business has a reasonable length of time that it would either be working or won’t be working, ok?  And I give it a reasonable length of time that I’m gonna do it.

Like if I went to Las Vegas, which I don’t do, I might go there; but I don’t play their games - - but if I were going to, I would assign a certain number of dollars for my entertainment.   So I’d say, well, I’m willing to throw $100 out tonight.  When the hundred’s gone, I’m gone.  I’m not gonna say, “Well, I believe I put another hundred in it, I can get even.”  Then I can go down two and then I better put two more in and pretty soon, I’m wondering how I’m gonna eat and get back home.  So I would spend the hundred dollars, if that’s what I felt I could afford, for entertainment this week, and that’s it, ok? 

(So where is a valid area for commitment?)

Commitment is something I make for what I’m going to do, not what kind of business I’m gonna run.  I am committed to being what to me is a good guest - - period.

(Period.)

Ok?

(Ok.  Are you committed to never change that?)

No, I’m committed to it until I find very valid reasons to change it.  So far I haven’t found any. 

(Commitment kind of hangs people up.)

Well, a commitment says I’m bound to anything until I find extremely valid reasons to change it, ok?  That all right?  But no commitment is based on forever and ever and ever unless you are pretty solid in what you’re doing - - but it’s always about what you’re doing not what you’re gonna “get”  or “have” or “perform” in a given thing.  In other words, we’ll say you were committed to skiing at the fastest speed down the hill that’s ever been done and the first time you’re out there, the guy knocks you down and breaks two legs so I guess you leave the thing there, I don’t know.  But until you got tired of it anyway - - I remember you did get run over on the ski slope once didn’t you?  It took a while to get you out of that one.

(It seems to be very difficult because like we all saw Skip, who thought the orange picking device was going to work and she kept doing and doing until she was…..)

….totally out of everything in many different ways.  So this was like the pump.

(There’s always the thought like Las Vegas - - one more hundred.)

….one more hundred and we’ll get even this time; and that’s when it ceases to be investment or running and experiment and becomes in love with an idea.

(Right.) Until everything’s completely gone.)

Oh yeah, so the whole thing is gone one way or the other - - the experiment is gonna get over with whether you do it willingly or you do it unwillingly.

(If you can see that at some point, and really know where it’s all coming from….)

Well, you got some more data on the subject and then you can do something.  So it’s like her orange picker.  She fell in love with the idea and she’s rattled off as to why it would  work.  It probably was a reasonable idea. 

People come in here - - we have ,for some reason or other, people who cross our paths here - - they have all sorts of nice little widgets that somebody is desperately in love with, ok?  And many of them you see that there would be very little, if any, application for it in the world, so you’re job is checking out risk on certain of these items.  Most of them he wouldn’t spend two minutes on; and I don’t either because I see the inherent risk is so overpowering to begin with, why even bother. 

Now there’s some that would require considerable amount of consideration with some top minds like Charles takes to put together to see whether it’s a decent risk.  But you see the little people that make orange pickers and pumps and so forth, they don’t go at it that way to accumulate data about the risk.  They’re just ready to go right now - - they know that this idea came in and was “God-sent”; and we must carry it out; and they’ve totally committed their whole life to it and I’ve never seen a widget I would get that committed to.

(Well, it picks oranges fine….)

Well, sure.

(Picks next year’s blossoms too.)

Oranges and blossoms are all on the tree at the same time - - little green ones and little blossoms and when it went to take the oranges off, it took the little green ones and blossoms off too, so that was fine.  Then you could wait three years and get another crop.

(When you’re talking a business sense about commitment you create the other end of the same coin - - do I know I’m doing the right thing to start something or am I doing the right thing to end it.)

Well, either one is whether it’s the right thing or reasonable thing.  You can’t be sure, but you know how far you’re willing to go, is that right? 

In other words you would be aware of how far you were willing to commit company funds to go on a given project; and once that project has used up those funds you’ve committed to it and it looked like it might be time to dump it - - now who knows that if you had drilled another two foot you might have hit the oil well.  I know about that.

You see this is what keeps people going.  I used to live over in the oil fields, and somebody was always telling somebody to quit just two foot just short of the pay.

(Somebody did?)

And some of them did; but nevertheless I couldn’t look down on him because he knew how far he was willing to go and that was it.  Somebody else bought his dry hole, drilled two more feet and hit a geyser.  So what?   Can’t win ‘em all – who even wants to.  You know how much risk you can take and that’s it.  Ok, next question?

(With this idea of falling in love with ideas - - how about people who simply fall in love with people and they hang on for years and years.  Like one I know has been going in and out of marriage for 12 years - - gone through marriages and  divorces; and then they’re thinkin’ about doing it again.  They never give up this “great” thing.  What in the world….)

That’s maybe an idea too.  They evidently weren’t very much in love or they wouldn’t have been trying all those other people.)

(Well, it seems that way - - many people carry torches for years and years and years - - they’re just in love with ideas.)

Well, I’d say that - - the idea of something.  So I believe it’s been said that they’re in love with love or the idea of love; and so they try it in all sorts of people and have one hassle after another.  After all if they’re hassling, obviously they’re not much in love.  If I gotta fight with somebody, obviously I’m not much in love with them.

(Well, this is one of those things where the ideologies….)

I’m aware of the one you’re talking about here.

(Ok.)

I’m well aware of the one you’re talking about, yeah.  They’ll probably try it two or three more times.  Yes?

(A different subject.  I don’t know what the question is exactly; but you were talking before about the experiment with the great big lizards; and then you said that one didn’t work; and on the tapes there was the bees and the ants…..)

That bees used to be six-foot tall and then they got too organized so there was no individual evolvement - - only the hive or the hill continued on; and so suddenly they found themselves a half-inch long or a quarter of an inch long and so another experiment was tried.  So maybe one day we’ll find humans running around in the leaves and the other fungi of some kind.

(You were talking the other day about the great value of staying awake….)

And I think that’s one of ‘em.  I think if we get carried away in too much emphasis on being so organized - - we have a perfect commune going that somethin’s liable to say, “Well, back to the drawing board.”   And I just a soon that we keep on being individuals; and therefore, making our few “boo boos” and learning a few things; and maybe we might get to stick around and…..

(And they’re not….)

…as individuality and not just a big bunch where the whole thing works as one - - where there is no evolving an individual.  The individual’s what it’s all about - - not the group.

(And it seems like a lot of so-called metaphysical things that they’re striving toward this oneness.)

Oh yeah, they want to get a group; and I don’t think groups are necessary - - I think neighbors are pretty wonderful, but groups - - let’s drop ‘em off, ok?

(Well, even with the idea, possibly we are all one and striving toward that feeling of “we are all one” - - it’s like an extension of it?)

Something like that.  I like to be individuals.  They come up with all manner of  “created equal”; and if you just look around a little bit, you see that is a “boo boo” right there; so let’s forget that one quick.  Thank goodness.  Forget that one.  Ok?

(Suppose ___.)

I think they are.  Well, that’s all right with me.  I just see that they all look a little different.  Some of ‘em are tall.  Some of ‘em are short.  Some of ‘em are round.  Some of ‘em are …

(Oh you’re talking on that level.)

Oh yeah, we’re not talking about every level at the same time, ok?  Next question, comment.

(Most people who have a series of relationships get off on it, you know.)

They do what?

(I suppose people who have a series of one, two, three four  relationships get off on it - - you know - - they enjoy it during the time that they’re having it, then they enjoy it during the time that they’re breaking up the relationship, they enjoy the splitting, and then they enjoy meeting  someone else - - you know and it’s a ball game.)

Well, I think that’s wonderful if they can enjoy it.  I have not talked to the ones that enjoy it.  I hear from the ones that are having agony over it, so that’s the ones I’ll talk about.
The ones that are enjoying it don’t ever come see me.  I don’t know anything that’s “good” nor “bad”, I am not involved in the opposites.  I only let other people tell me what they feel is “good and bad” and I will work accordingly.  So the only ones I’ve seen going through all those were the ones that were not enjoying it.  Now the ones that’s enjoying it obviously don’t come see me. 

(Thank you.  I still put labels that some things as ‘good” and some things as “bad”.)

Well, that’s is everybody’s privilege, but I don’t.  I quit it a while ago because I found I really didn’t know what I was talking about when I did it - - but other people may do it if they so choose.  I don’t know exactly what’s good and bad.  I know what’s good to me; and I know what’s desirable to me and what’s undesirable to me.  I qualified it a little bit for Phillip a while ago, is that right; and that seemed to fit all right, didn’t it?  Now it’s good to me.  Something is beautiful to me.  I don’t know whether everybody else says so or not; but it’s very beautiful to me, ok?  All right Norma?

(When you were talking about being in love with an idea.  All the years that I blamed the church because they said it was good and you’d really get your life started if you would give your - - I can’t remember the words - - give your life to some…)

Somethin’ like that.  Yeah they had different ones in different buildings.

(And I felt guilty because I could never make that commitment.)

Right.

(If everyone did, would that be....)

Well you go ask one of them, honey, I didn't do it either, ok?  I didn't do it either, and I forgot to feel guilty about it.

(Is that partly being in love with an idea?) 

Yeah, that would be part of it - - I would say they're supposed to do that.  Now I don't know, you'd have to talk to those people because I really don't know.  I know I heard the same thing you're talking about and somethin' in me said ummm; I’m not doing that; but I see people that say they have done that, but I also have them in to talk to me that's talking an entirely different story on Tuesday morning. 

(And yet they’ll say that …..)

Oh yeah, on Sunday.  And they may tell you that on Wednesday; but I said they come see me on Tuesday mornin' that don't sound like they found the answer to everything, ok.

(...experiences they had?)

Huh?

(What are the experiences they had?)

....agreement, I think, with a group.  I think that's what it is.  I don't know, I said I didn't have it, so I’m not qualified to answer the question 'cause I was a reprobate like you.

(If you don’t' dare ask them....)

Well, I have.  I dare do almost anything Norma; and they go into a bunch of words and tell me I’ll have to do it.  So I said fine, but I can't get around to doing it yet, so it's all right with me. 

It's like when they drug me into those little buildings; and they had a guy up there telling that he could look out yonder and see this glorious area with gold streets and people thumpin' harps and all this - - and I thought, you can't see that any better than I can because I can't see it.  I looked out there, and I didn't see it.  And then he said he looked down there and he saw this burning pit full of sulfur flames and smoke and everything risin' up forever; and I said he didn't see that either.  So I thought he was kind of kiddin' me a little bit, ok? 

Now maybe he wasn't, but I couldn't buy it that he could see it and I couldn't, ok?  So I just left that where it is.  I put that in the "I don't know" department" and left it there.  I'm very comfortable with an awful lot of things in the "I don't know" department.  It just doesn't bother me a bit in the world for it to be there, ok? 

(Maybe you were the wrong person to see?)

Oh, I'm the one that says I don't know; and furthermore, I agree that nobody else knows; and it's my humble viewpoint, ok? - - that they don't know either.Yes Pearl?

(I have to be very careful then not to just agree with what you say and what you would…)

...would think and everything else.  Absolutely - - absolutely!  Find out for yourself.  It is repeated, there is no authority here.  We'll dish out some stuff, but you check it out because i don't want anybody saying I'm doin' this because Bob said so - - because who knows? 

So we’ll give you some ideas; but for goodness sake, check 'em out yourself; and we do say, we don't put anything out you can't check up on.  We’ve nothing that you accept because I said so.  If there's something comes up, you can certainly check up on it.  I don't think I push out anything you can't try out.  Have you ever found anything Margaret you couldn't check up on if you so intended to do so, is that right? 

(Right on.)

So we're not going to put out anything that can't be checked on; and we recommend that everybody do check it out. 

(I sometimes get the feeling that they are self-righteous in the groups I've participated in - - you know, they say that that’s the only way and ...)

Well, I don't think you'd find that here.  No, we say you can check up on it and find out; and there's no self righteous and lookin' down our nose at somebody else that uses some other terminology.  If somebody else uses the light, or somebody else says the "all in all" - - I'm just as happy with it.  Or if they say it is pure biological process, I'm just as happy with that.  The name is nothing - - that's why we put the letter X because we know there's something there and cannot define it and describe it exactly and they taught me in algebra when I didn't know what it was, but I knew it was there, stick an X in until I found out.  So as soon as I find out, I'm gonna change it.  I'll put something in there besides the X.  But in the meantime I'm gonna stick with the X.  And the X says I don't even know; but I know somethin's there - - I can see it perform; but I don't know all about it, so we'll leave it only as an algebraic symbol saying there's something there and I haven't seen what it is, but I can see somewhat how it works.  And that's all I know about it.  Yes dear?

(The person who puts X instead of Christ in Christmas did it accidentally.)

He probably did that accidentally?  I don't know.  He knew somethin' was there too and didn't know what it was, I guess or didn't have room, probably, but he ended there.  Ok next question, comment, Debbie?

(It's about 6 years ago in EST, I asked if we were responsible for everything in our system?  I know that we report our feelings.)

That's obvious.

(So are we not seeing clear?)

That's probably true, but I'm not qualified to comment on the subject.

(Why?)

Well, I haven't been to EST, so obviously I'm not qualified to comment on it.

(But do we create - - are we responsible for everything in our existence?)

Well, I don't know what all you put out as your existence.  There is windstorms and rainstorms and hail storms and hurricanes come along and some people suggest, I suppose, can you bring in a hurricane?  I don't know, ask yourself, don’t' ask me? 

(Ok - - the things that happen to us - - maybe accidents or - - you know, the good things and the accidents and the whole....)

I said, that's in the "I don't know" department.  I only look at what can I do about it.  I'm not interested in attempting to answer “why” questions finding that anytime you answer a ‘why” question the next answer is "why that"; and I don't want to get caught in that score of answering why everything happened.

I am very interested in seeing “what I can do about the present situation”; but I'm not interested in philosophizing or explaining as to why that happened.  Now I don't know why you were born a girl and Charles was born a man.  Now I can deal with the fact that you're that way, but I don't know why, ok?  And as far as I'm concerned, you're asking me a why question.  Can you answer why this happened and that happened; and this person had a flat tire and this one didn't;  and this one had an accident and this one didn't have?  I can't answer that question; and I don't want to get caught in it or any why questions, so to me you're asking me a why question and I've turned 'em down every since you've known me - - I don't care what it was about, is that right?  It's not because you brought it up that you went to an "Est" class.  It's because you were attempting to ask me a why question; and I won't try to answer it because I don't know.  I don't know why anything happens, but I can usually see what to do about it after it gets here.  That's the only thing that I know.  Yes Pearl?

(I interpreted that X is the experience…)

Right, so you tell Debbie the answer to it, ok? 

(Can I ask a question?)

Sure.

(Are we responsible for our experience?)

Yeah, we generally choose how we're gonna see things, yes - - we're generally gonna choose how we see things.  One person sees a given situation as very bad.  Another one involved in the same thing see it as fine. 

We are responsible for how we see things - - how we choose to see things.  We've talked about that at qreat length sometime through the week.  We can choose how we're gonna see things which is another way of seeing
“what can I do about it when it is here”.  I have had the question that Debbie asked throwed at me several different times on that like “did you bring about the ingrown toenail”.  “Did you bring about the accident on the street?”  “Did you bring about the flood that washed away your buildings” and so forth.  I don't know, so I'm not trying to answer a why question.  I don't know why these things happen.  We see what we can do.  If the buildings washed away, I can start rebuilding it or move to higher ground.

(One interpretation about that is that I am responsible for my ____.)

I would say that - - I would 100% agree with.  I am responsible for how I see it; but not for all the things that might and might not have happened, ok?  Ok it's about time we take a break for about 15 minutes or so and we will start again in a little bit.

(No news is good news.)

That's right.  Long as there's no news, why it's doing fine - - that's the way I keep everything goin' fine, and I don't read the newspaper.  I saw one this morning and it didn't have anything that looked any different from the one I looked at three weeks ago. 

Ok, shall we proceed with whoever has a question or a comment or whathaveyou?  Yes sir?

(I'm loaded.)

Good.

(Would you talk about the value of increasing our necessity?)

Well, it usually gets somebody to do something.  Now as long as you have no necessity, you’re not gonna do anything.  You’re loaded with inertia; but if your necessity gets increased, why you get up and begin to do something. 

I would not attempt to deliberately increase anybody's necessity; but I have noticed that sometimes when they're necessity is increased; they do start workin' a little better.

I have found that people, like alcoholics, when they can survive a little bit, they keep drinking; but some day they get to the point where they can't function and they're necessity is increased and they begin to look for somebody to work with them so they can begin to do better.  I think that goes for everyone - - that somebody has to feel there is some necessity before they do much of anything. I don't even go drink water unless I feel it's a necessity, I'm thirsty.  So I think that it's as simple as that, that when a person's necessity is increased, they begin to find something to do. 

People who live in tropics don't usually build very elaborate houses because their necessity is not increased.  You live in a temperate zone or where it's cold; you put a lot of insulation in the house and so forth, right?

(Right.)

So I think it's all the same thing.  Is that reasonable enough Phillip?

(May I just add a little bit - - would you recommend that those that might feel that they are stuck - - they've got the information and they seem to be a little lazy or whathaveyou to deliberately increase their own necessity.)

I think nature will increase it for them soon enough without going out and asking for anything.  I just don't go out askin' for things.

(Ok.)

Mama told me let sleepin' dogs lie - - it'll come soon enough anyway, so I've read over it.  Just let it alone, it'll be there soon enough Phillip.  Your necessity will get increased from nature without any of us deliberately doing it.  I think that would be a little difficult to decide you'll do it.

(A lot of us seem to find that that was kind of happening - - it's a form of reporting.  Really. Doesn't it seem to be? You think?)

Oh yeah.

(I need some necessity.)

And you will get it.  Here it comes.  It will be there.  That's one thing you can be assured of will happen real quick like.  So I don't need any more necessity than I got.  I'm gettin' along all right where it is.  Ok?  Next subject.

(Bob in the six states of creation on the day that the earth and the water was separated, it doesn't say it was good at the end of it?)

I didn't write the book, I don't know.  You'll have to ask the writer whether he intentionally left it out or it just slipped by that morning, ok.  Check up on him and see.  I don't know whether it was good or bad or indifferent.  It is, ok?  Ok, that's good enough.  I don't know that one.  How are you doin' back there lady?

(All right.)

Ok, next comment, question, point you want to talk about?  You've haven't been around much so you have the next one.  You ought to have somethin' to ask about now.  Everybody else is gettin' fuzzy. 

(Well, I don't know what you we're talkin' about.)

What we're talkin' about is anything that anybody brings up to talk about.  I covered a few subjects on my own that I was interested in.  Now we're lettin' everybody else have it, ok?  Have you got something you're interested in; we'll try to talk about it.  You're not obligated; we'll come back in a minute.  We don't put you under pressure.  I'm not gonna push you around.  Ok? 

(I don't want to monopolize....)

I would like for you to do so.  I like to talk with you Phil? 

(Would you talk a little bit about "will"?  First of all, in the marriage of purpose and will - - will there, you're defining as doing or action.)

I believe that doing is the outcome of will, yes.  

(The outcome of it?)

Yeah, if you don't have any will, you wouldn't do anything,

(Ok.)

You'd be totally inertia.  Inertia is the absence of will I guess.

(We were talking last night about perhaps that thing or factor you call "will” actually may appear to be weak and grows stronger with what -- with use?)

Well, it may if one is beginning to see what one wants to do.  Now we don't want to confuse that with “will power” which is being in a conflict over "I want to do it" and "I don't want to do it".  I think that will is generally weak because a not i jumps up and says, "Are you sure you want to do this?" 

(Huh?)

….and so it backs off.  The not i is always trying to imply that if you knew the future, you'd be in a much better position to act; and if you knew the future, you would be in no position to act whatsoever.  (Laughter)  You wouldn't do anything. 

(All right.  Can you discuss or clarify for me perhaps the relationship between will and faith - - the ability to make up the mind.)

I believe they're very similar - - in fact I think you couldn't have one without the other.  So say it's two sides of the same coin - - one's head is one's tail because faith without the will to go ahead and do something - - you make up your mind; but then if you didn't act upon it, it wouldn't accomplish anything.  So there has to be the first act.  So I'd say its heads and tails of the same coin, ok?  Faith is the ability to make up the mind; and will is the ability to act upon what you made your mind up about, ok? 

(Very good.)

Ok? 

(Thank you.)

You're through now, ok Pearl? 

(Back to knowing about our future.  Supposing if one went to a psychic and the psychic outlined a whole bunch of things over the next six months and they were to one’s liking; could that be used to help one make up one's mind.)

Well, in all probability, so maybe people would use it for that and would begin to act upon what was said; and they would have some degree of probability of bringing it about, of course.

(So going to the psychic isn’t necessarily.......) 

I know the one you’re taling about.  He’s one of the more renowned psychic's around.  I know an awful lot of people who go to him and pay him well, so I'm sure he serves a wonderful purpose or he wouldn't be functioning. 

(Ok.)

I would not find anything wrong with it one way or the other or right for it.  It think definitely many people need a little of prodding in order to make up their mind; and if that's the way to get it done, why wonderful. 

(It sounds like they just let the psychic be their will.)

And that's about right; or the “maker up of the mind”.  You let him make up your mind.  Well, if that's primes the pump ‘til you can do it yourself well, that's fine.  I grew up on a place where if you wanted water out of the pump, you had to pour some in it first to prime the pump, then it'd start pumpin'.  And so I'm sure that sometimes a psychic would serve the purpose of priming the pump; and you could let him make up your mind first or give an impetus to make up the mind; and then later you might way, we'll why go see him, just go do it myself.  I don't know.  I think it'd work either way.  Yes Pearl?

(Are some people capable of experiencing what's going on in another's mind; and then just sit back and experience whatever's going on and then then there's mind and body.)

Well, I know you can be aware of what's going on in another person's mind.  I don't know whether you could be experiencing everything or whether you would call that experiencing, but I know that it is possible to know what's going on in another person's mind.  I know it's also possible to have things going on in another person's mind.

(Is that right?)

Yeah.

(Cause things to go on there?)

Yeah, that you can definitely influence things to happen in the other person's mind.  I do know that.  In other words you can make up another person's mind for them.  That is possible.  I don't think that it's a real thing that I would want to do all the time; but if it served my purpose, I'd probably do it.  So it certainly can put decisions in another person's mind.  If they're not taking care of it, why somebody else can walk in.  If they're in charge of it, you can't get through; but if they're not in charge of it, why you can do so.  So if you see a perfectly valuable human being laying around doing nothing, you might as well pick it up and use it, you know.  If I find $100 bill on the street, I'll pick it up and use it.  Ok?  Next point, question.

(I started to say that the will will let you know what it wants you to do.)

Now I'm not quite sure of that.  I said it will tell you what to eat.  So the Host tells you when you're sleepy.  It tells you when you're tired.  It tells you when you're restless.  It tells you when you're hungry.  And you would never know when to have water for the body unless somethin' told you, is that right?  You would never know when to eat except that it was 8, 12, 6 or whatever.  Wouldn’t know it was time to have your Dr. Pepper unless you saw it was 10, 2 or 4.  So it always tells you that; but it doesn't tell you whether it wants you to go plant beans or whether to plant corn or stay in the house and fan.  It does not tell you that, ok? 

(It’s not the bible.)

No, just for survival is what it wants you to listen to it to take care of the motor function, ok?  That's simple enough.   It tells you that very definitely.  You know you have a feeling you need sleep.  Now you wouldn't know when to go to sleep otherwise.  You would not know when to get a drink of water.  You would not know when to get yourself cooler than you are or warmer than you are and all these.  It does tell you those.  Yes Melba?

(It tells about the survival of the motor function, but it's not going to tell the awareness what is good for its survival.)

No, it doesn't seem to do that.  It already loves it, so it has no flaws.  It will do anything with it.  Don't you know when you're really in love with anybody; they don't have any flaws whatsoever.  So it's not gonna do that.

(But there are some stories about ...)

....yeah there's a gob of stories, yeah, gobs of stories about this - - a jillion of 'em.  They all say pretty much the same thing in a different setting, right?  There's gobs of stories.  Next question, comment? 

(I'd like to ask about the tone scale?  It’s been my observation with myself, at any rate, that if I'm in the resentment area or the anger area, I would want to do something to get out of that.  I want - - it is desirable.  When I get into that “contentment area” which is at the top of the waking sleep area of the tone scale, it's like being in molasses; and it takes dynamite to get me out of there because..........)

It feels lahdedah.

(That's right.)

Lahdedah, that's right.  So you can go either way, but at least fall out of it; and it'll give you motivation to jump over it.  But otherwise, you know, it.....

(Would it be wise?)

Well, I didn't say it would be wise.  You asked me a way to do it.

(Ok.)

You could do it either way.  It's like Phillip's increasing his necessity.  When you're there, your necessity is not very much increased, it's just “lahdedah” to be contented, you know.  So maybe you need a nap now and then Margaret.  Don't knock it.  You won't get to have it too long, ok?  Yes, Phil?

(At the workshop at Brentwood, one time someone used the word karma and you asked them if they knew what it meant, and they said - - yeah, it meant action which may be a literal translation but also is called the law of “cause and effect” by some schools.  But you said no that it means balance.)

Balancing, yeah.

(They said “Action.” And you said “No balance.”)

And the argument was over.

(Balance?  That was the end of the discussion.)

Right.

(I would like for you to...)

Karma says - - the best I understand the subject which I didn't read very much - - it said that somewheres back here I did this, ok?  And so here “so and so” is happening - - I'm experiencing this or such is happening to me.  Ok it says this is paying for that.  Now it's sometimes called karma.  In other words the last trip through here I mistreated old ladies; and so this time I have to take care of a lot of old ladies; and they said this is paying for that.  Ok.  So I don't know; but that's what the concept is.  So that’s to the best of my ability to read the concept; and so in this session I have to deal with a lot of alcoholics and drunks because back here I spit on one somewheres - - now because I did that, I got to take care of them.  That's the way I heard it is a balancing for some past unpaid transgressions of one sort or another, ok? 

(It balances the scales in other words.)

Balancing.  And then if I fuss about this, I'll have to do it another time.  So I better like it while I'm gettin' to do it and say well fine, I'm just happy to be involved with all these good drunks and everything and treat 'em all nice and take care of the nice old ladies and hold their crutches for 'em and whathaveyou, ok? 

(Right.)

That's the way I read it.  Now I do not say that is the one and only way of doing it.  But finally if I kept it up long enough just talking simply about balancing, they finally agreed with me Phil.  You will have to agree with that.  Ok?  What's next Phil?

(…that's a good one.  Ok, what about silence.  I have experienced running a little experiment like remaining silent for a 24 hour period; and I found the same thing.  I discovered that in Pythagoras’s school, he had….)

….had people go silent over quite a period of time.

(Five years was the requirement for a …)

…..and the Trappist monks do a lifetime. 

(Is that right?)

Yeah, they do it for a lifetime as do the Carmelites, the ladies order of the Trappist; and they go for a lifetime also - - totally silent don't talk to nothin' nor nobody; and they look to the toes of their sandals all the time.  I have found that many waitresses in restaurants are members of the Carmelite Order.  (Laughter)

(They can’t hear you.)

 They just watch their toes of their sandals or go right on.  You can be waving….

(From a practical point of view - - I suppose a lot of people can do things for what they think is a good reason; but from your point of view is there some value in silence for some period of time that perhaps could heighten some of your other abilities.)

It, no doubt, would heighten some other ways of communicating.  In other words, of course, you know there's many ways to communicate with another person beside words; and if you didn't use the words, you would of necessity actualize some of the other means because you're still needing to communicate with somebody a little bit. 

So it might work real well to be silent.  You see, I give no techniques.  I just say you figure out you're own techniques because I'm not technique happy.  I was involved in things for years where everybody was peddling a technique of some sort of other; and so I just don't ever use a technique; but they are workable.  I would much prefer that each person chose their own technique if they were gonna use one; and if silence would fit anybody's purpose for a while, it would be a wonderful technique to enhance other means of communication.  But I think it would be even more delightful whether you talked or not you keep the brain quiet.

(Yeah.)

And that I would say was really something.  It's not much effort to keep my big mouth shut; but it's a hell of an effort to stop that brain from chattering.  So if you stop the internal talking, Phil, I would say that’s what’s meant by the silence, ok? 

(Great, yes.)

And the outside words has really nothing to do with it.  But what is meant by people writing about "the silence" is when the internal talkin' has come to an end.  But if keeping external talking down had any effect on creating an internal silence I'd say, well, fine, let's try it out and see.  I have been to the Trappist Monastery in Bardstown, Kentucky on a number of occasions and nobody talks to me; but I got along all right in there.  You know you can wewag over there till you get his toes off his sandals; and they're afraid of women in there.  They won't let one go through the door.  They're afraid they'll get their attention off their toes.  Yes Pearl?

(What is there to do about karma or balance?)

I say balancing goes on all the time.  I don't know how far separated the act and the balance is.  I've found that to me it's very close together - - apparently to some people's ideas it's very far apart.  I don't talk about it, Pearl, because it, again, is basically trying to answer why something happened; and I don't involve myself in that.  I don't say there's anything wrong with it - - I just am unqualified to speak on why anything happened; but I think there is obviously balancing going on at all times.  I think that's the “play” that keeps life going is balancing.  So in that prospect it is a very obvious fact.  Can it be explained why a child was born with no legs?  I don't try to answer that question.  I say let's see what we can do to get them a pair of legs that will work after while.

I don't know why it happened and I can't get involved in that question - - being totally unqualified to speak upon such a subject least I misinform someone.  Next question. Point? Subject you want to talk about?  Miss Diana?

(I find I’m like old Paul - - what I want to do, I find I'm not doing, so I guess I just want to want to do it.)

Yeah, cause if you really want to do something, you'll do it; but if you just “want to want to fit some ideal”, then you're using will power; and in will power - - which is what he was talking about - - you never do - - it's not your will, it's something you ought to do.

So if you're trying to be comfortable, but you really don't want to give up something, then you're using will-power.  Now will-power we said earlier this week was another pretty word for conflict.

(Oh yeah, I'm aware of that.)

Ok, but will is simply doing something you want to do.  So you want to get in your little car and drive up the mountain, then you do that because that's what you wanted to do.  So if you wanted to get in your little car and go see about old Aunt Susie who may be starving this morning, but you really wanted to go down the hill to Denver, then you get to using will power as to whether you go see about the old lady or go on down to Denver.  And no matter which way you went, you probably wouldn't feel very good about it.

(Ok, so when I get into this self-remembering, that's a wonderful spot for that moment I’m in because I see that I really don't want to do something because I’d rather do.....)

So then you go do what you want to do, ok? 

(Ok...)

Always do what you want to do.  I don't know what you should do and nobody else does; but all the not i's know exactly what you should be doing, but half of them think you should go down the hill and the other half says you should go up the hill; and no matter which way you go, the other one hollers about it, ok? 

(Yeah.)

Ok.  That's the three brained creature - - one brain with two warts on it; and we said let's whack the warts off and then we only have one thing we want to do, ok?  So you want to go do something, go do it?  And when you want to go do something else, go do that.  But that is using plain will and there is no interference to it; but if you do like Paul said, he did not do what he should do as I read it.  In other words, the things he would do, he didn't do; and the things he should do, he did not do or things he would not do, he did.  So he was using will power to try to fit some ideal and he found out it didn't work, ok?  He was trying to be “good” when he wanted to do what he called “being good” when he really wanted to be doing something else.

(Um hum.)

So sometimes you see somebody driving down the highway with a sign on the back bumper that says, "I'd rather be sailing."

(Yeah.)

I don't believe it because if he wanted to be sailing he'd be out there sailing.  He wanted to be driving down the road right now.  You see I flat don't believe his bumper sticker.

(Right.)

Ok.  Marge.

(Yes.  Would you talk a little bit about being consciously selfish or self interest?)

Ok, when I look at something I want to do - - that which I feel is to my advantage - - I cannot do otherwise.  I have found it not to my advantage - - ever to my advantage - - to harm you in any way.  So you won't have to be afraid of me.

(Right.)

I will not harm you in any way because it's never to my advantage, ok?  I have found it to my advantage to behave as a gentleman to the best of my ability whatever I know about that subject, ok? 

(Yeah.)

So you will probably be treated fairly well around me.  Now I'm doing that because it's to my advantage to do so which means I am selfish; but I’m being consciously selfish because “unconscious selfish is greed”.  I want to get it to keep you from havin' it.  So I would like to live in a world full of consciously selfish people because they would all be giving a little due consideration to doing what they could see was to their advantage; and they wouldn't see it to their advantage to be cheating me, cutting my head off or cutting  my ears off or giving me a hard way to go because that wouldn't be to their advantage.  Every time I have ever seen anything like that happen, it had a backfire on it, ok?  Ok?  Next subject?

(Opposites and degrees?)

Well, opposite would be hot and cold, we'll say; and degrees would be degrees of temperature.  So you could apply that to  everything else.  So we'll just use that.  Take 100 degrees Fahrenheit or 32 degrees Fahrenheit  - - those are degrees, but somebody would say it's cold or it’s hot - - now where would be the dividing line?  I don't know.  So we would say that it is more accurate to describe exactly instead of saying somebody's old or young or the building is pretty or ugly - - we'd describe it rather than using terms that are opposite.  So the temperature would be - - if we could use more accurate communication - - I would say, the temperature is 44 degrees rather than it's barely warm or it's very cool.

(What hot and cold have in common is it is measured in degrees?)

That's right and that goes for any other opposites is it’s a measure in some sort of way whether it's old, young, new, old, new, used - - everything is in some sort of a degree.  So you could use the description, whatever kind of degree would fit for them - - that would be the thing that would work.  - - long and short you might measure in inches or centimeters.

(Yesterday you said ecstasy and pain - - who can tell the difference.  What's the measurement?)

You'll have to talk to the individual because nobody but the individual could decide whether they were ecstatic.

(They're not opposites.)

No.

(How do you measure those?)

Well, they got a widget in the labs that you can measure pain with - - it's called dolos - - it means door.

(Are those sensations....?)

Why it measures on a scope and shows you how much intensity is there; and some people will say 10 on that scale will be tearing up the house because they're in such agony and the other guy says, "Well, yeah, I guess I can tell it's a little uncomfortable."

(And it registers the same on the scale?)

Yeah, and it registers exactly the same on the scale, so some people are obviously highly sensitive to comfort and lack of comfort to them; and some could care less.  So some guy that you think ought to really be having a big fit - - the instruments shows that he is having say 60 on the scale but  he says, "Yeah, it's vaguely uncomfortable, but nothing I can't handle."  And another person with way less on the scale would be really having all kinds of fits about it.  It's just horrible. 

So I think pain and such things are purely subjective.  I think they're purely subjective not objective - - we can't even know the attempt to make this machine which does register like the nerves are vibrating at a certain rate or spasm does do that - - but I think it's purely a subjective thing.  Comfort would be purely subjective and so on down the line.  Ok?  Any other comment, question, point here.

(Bob, you may have already answered this, but I'd like to verify it.  On #1 tape of the Science of Man series, you talk about the fact that there were schools that have been operated - - there was difficulties associated with them in terms of people being able to find the time and money and get to the location; and consequently, here we are with the 48 tapes.  Ok, was your experiment in that area of the school still working on this awakening individuals to the self knowing and self remembering area?)

Right, the last numbers of the 48 are on self remembering, but the biggest part of it is on self-knowing.

(Right, but the schools ..........I mean the so-called physical schools - - did they operate on the same thing?)

Yeah.

(In other words that's like maybe 6 months or something and everybody awakens and ............)

And then they can go on their own on self remembering.  Right.  

(I thought the question was already answered.)

Yeah, I think it is.  I did my best at it anyway.  Did my durndest.  Ok what’s the next subject?  Ok, we will call it a session ended.  We have been here all week and I hope you have half as much enjoyed it as I have; and I hope it has been somewhat profitable to you.  It was to me; but I am thankful that we have come to the end.  Now I’ll be ready to start another one fine day.  We’ll always be happy to put on one wherever and whenever enough people request and sincerely want one - - we’ll be happy to do it.  And everybody have a lovely, lovely afternoon and weekend.

Continued............

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